Let's Talk About Porn

Good day fellow community members, today I'd like to talk about porn. I am of an age wherein porn has made up the vast majority of my sexual release, fantasy development, etc, I've been watching porn since I was ~14, and continue to do so 10 years later. I hear occasional mention of porn on this forum, some people are very liberal in their outlook, drawing inspiration from it, others believe it is having a potentially detrimental affect on young men, particularly their attitudes toward women and sex, what better place to gather as many diverse opinions as possible? This isn't going to be another obviously biased rant either pushing porn or condemning it, I've read many of them, and I've come to the conclusion that it is best to keep an open mind, and have an honest discussion. I myself am deeply conflicted on the issue for many reasons, all of which I will go over in this post.

My own journey with porn started out innocently enough. I started with softcore and gradually worked my way up over the years to hardcore, then into various fetishes, then eventually into bdsm and extreme varieties of bdsm. Basically if there is legal porn out there for a particular fantasy/fetish, I've watched it. My evolving tastes were limited by various aspects of my upbringing. When I first started watching I felt very isolated and deviant, even though it was light softcore porn. I was still harboring irrational beliefs up until a year or 2 ago (i.e religion), and so my fear of god put a leash on some of the fantasies I was willing to explore through porn, well temporarily anyways. As I developed a better understanding of the negative effects religion had on my life, my fear of god gradually subsided, and I am now able to live by my own values and make my own choices based on reason and evidence alone.

I have found my porn use problematic and disturbing for reasons aside from religion however. My first problem is that I am susceptible to spending far too much time with porn and shirking other responsibilities (a hallmark of addiction), though I can't entirely blame porn for my general lack of ambition and procrastination. I am also susceptible to watching porn that I am morally conflicted on, because I'm not always thinking clearly once I am on a pornsite, and the "videos you might enjoy" section is always drawing my attention with exciting new things. Bdsm was very difficult to come to terms with, I've always known that I get off on the idea of submitting to women and having pain inflicted on me, as well as dominating women and inflicting pain on them (consensually of course), but another part of my brain (other than the part that controls my raging hard ons) has difficulty coming to terms with witnessing violent acts, or carrying out violent acts, even when entirely consensual. So here I am trying to reconcile something that both gets me off more than anything else, and makes me feel depressed and alienated at the same time. This conflict is even stronger for more extreme varieties of bdsm porn, in which "performers" are often visibly in obvious excruciating pain/distress, crying, screaming, etc. It's an incredible sexual rush to see someone in pain, and to imagine having that pain inflicted on me, but it also triggers that protective male instinct in me whenever I see a woman crying or in pain, making me feel guilty and depressed. I would never have imagined just how extreme and easily available this genre of porn could be when I was a naive 14 year old gaping at the sight of bare breasts. So in a way I've felt deceived at times, exposed to genres of porn that I could never have hoped to process correctly at a young age, I was only 16 when I first started watching the light/moderate bdsm on offer by the production company Kink.

I hear a lot of speculation on porn's effect, that men and women are being indoctrinated into a certain outlook on sex, I'm not sure how much of this is true. A lot of people who believe that porn is programming men and women, like to use examples of bad sex they have had, where people haven't respected their boundaries. They will say that they felt pressured into certain sex acts, or even had certain sex acts performed on them without consent. To me that is just not acceptable under any circumstance, I always respect boundaries and ensure that the other party knows that my suggestions/ideas for activities we might enjoy are in fact suggestions, not demands. I can see where this argument is coming from though, some people may not be quite as evolved as the rest of us, and a lot of porn doesn't seem to focus on the consent aspect so much as the acts themselves. Kink for example will show before and after interviews where it is clear that the sex is entirely consensual, but for a lot of other porn consent is to be assumed by the viewer, even when the performers are being pressured into an act as part of the "role-play" on set. If we don't see the consent occurring between the performers, how are we supposed to feel about that as consumers? When a woman is in obvious pain during an anal sex scene for example, and the guys are pressuring her into continuing even when she backs down, that really bothers me, and it's far more common than most of us porn enthusiasts would like to admit. We push consent in sex ed and elsewhere as one of the core tenants of healthy sex, but then there is the murky grey area of porn where consent is the default assumption, even when there is quite a bit of porn floating around out there that is not consensual (Revenge porn, sketchy studios, some amateur porn). A lot of people have fantasies surrounding a lack of consent, and I think on some level many people are turned on when consent isn't clear, when there is that small flicker of doubt what they are watching is something that everyone involved consented to. Porn producers seem to be capitalizing on that element, why would revenge porn be so popular if there wasn't a market for it after all.

I'm not really sure where to go from here, I don't want to stop watching porn entirely, I've tried that and failed on multiple occasions. I don't want to keep watching porn on tube sites like pornhub either, I pay a subscription so technically I am paying for the porn, but not enough to really support the performers. The problem I have is finding a pay site with enough variety, which is why I always end up back on pornhub and watching things I'd really rather not be watching. I've also hit a wall with bdsm, I'm so conflicted on it and I can't see how anyone can draw a clear line between what is kinky fun and what is abuse. Sure the line is technically consent, but some people consent to giving up safe words and/or living their entire lives as someone else's "slave", how can that be considered "sane" consent? When someone no longer appears to be enjoying the pain they are receiving from bdsm play, doesn't that indicate some sort of mental health problem? If they are really having a good time why are they crying/screaming? Aren't they just addicted to the pain/endorphin high and should be treated like any other case of addiction?

Looking at porn from a broader perspective, I think perhaps steps could be taken to restrict access to minors and to solidify the concept of consent. I would agree that it is dangerous to have pornhub as the only tool teaching people what sex should be, and I think it could be addressed better via education. Of course the shaming doesn't really help either, it's important to encourage open discussion of these topics to prevent feelings of shame and isolation among young people. Looking forward to hearing any and all opinions on the topic.

Is there such a thing as PA(porn anonymous)? I too loved to watch porn and there are plenty of scenes that I enjoyed looking at, some scenes I have replicated with my love partners(some were Lyla ladies) but I would not say that I'm addicted to porn. My wife would bet to differ, she thinks that I get up at 4am just to watch it, the truth is I can't sleep anymore.

I do not pay to watch porn, I feel it's like water(somewhat). Why pay for it when it's available anywhere at no charge.

Getting back to your concern, I personally think that finding someone of the opposite sex with similar attraction as you would help out a lot. I'm no doctor but I believe in the expression that another person can complete you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm only trying to help out.

Good post, Taffer.

Porn is a touchy subject, even on here. I once asked out of curiosity what people thought about having "mainstream" porn playing muted on the TV during an encounter as background eroticism. More than you might guess were against it or thought it was lame, etc. To each, there own... which is where this discussion is likely to end up.

My own thoughts from reading your post are that you do have an addiction and you need to "nip this in the bud" before it blossoms into something you can't control... or don't want to. I'm not criticizing here but extremes of porn, like religion, can fuck you up and distort reality. Porn has become mainstream and I'm not necessarily against that. Why does much of society say watching people enjoy sexual pleasure on screen is bad but the latest John Wick movie showing dozens of murders is shrugged off as normal entertainment?

It's a big world out there with lots of weird and/or nasty stuff or beautiful and loving experiences and everything in between. How you shape "your" world is up to you.

I don't know enough about addiction to say whether dialing it back is better than quitting cold turkey. As my signature line says, "moderation in everything, including moderation", which to me means keep extremism in check... until its necessary. Stay away from the extreme side of porn, if you can. If you occasionally need to watch it, don't beat yourself up afterwards. Just go back to the mainstream stuff. Extreme forms of anything are usually unhealthy. Balance is the key.

I'm not religious. I do practice some meditation and I have read up on Buddhism a bit. It helps keep my extremist tendencies in check and reduces my anxiety. I particularly have an interest in what it says about non-attachment for possessions... or desires.:)

Bottom line, you're not weird or alone. Just keep an eye out for the extremist side of anything. I'd like to hear others thoughts as well.

All the best.

p.s. That will be $250. I accept bitcoin, no 3rd party checks. :)

Is there such a thing as PA(porn anonymous)? I too loved to watch porn and there are plenty of scenes that I enjoyed looking at, some scenes I have replicated with my love partners(some were Lyla ladies) but I would not say that I'm addicted to porn. My wife would bet to differ, she thinks that I get up at 4am just to watch it, the truth is I can't sleep anymore.

I do not pay to watch porn, I feel it's like water(somewhat). Why pay for it when it's available anywhere at no charge.

I think it falls under the sex addicts anonymous groups. There are quite a few online communities but there's a reason I'm posting here for some feedback rather than the porn addiction forums. The general opinion held on those forums is anti porn and often anti sex, there is no middle-ground "cutting back" form of recovery that is accepted there. Not to say I'm not open to all mindsets on this forum, if you are anti porn or pro porn in all it's forms I'm open to hearing the entire range of perspectives, but at least there is a range of perspectives here rather than just a singular hive mind.

I think the fact that we don't feel like paying for porn may provide some explanation as to why the industry is so disorganized and sometimes "sketchy". We are so used to running to the free tube sites that have so much sketchiness mixed in with the good stuff, paying for porn can alleviate a lot of the concerns that I have. Anyone can upload to the free porn sites, from professional production companies to some knob getting revenge on an ex wife with their sex tape :(

You never really know what you're getting unless you are paying a professional company, and even then there are plenty of sketchy "professional" porn production companies out there. If it weren't for the lack of variety I'd stick to pay sites. I'd consider starting a collection of porn downloaded from professional pay sites to solve the variety issue, but that gets into an entirely different legal grey area depending on the content. Kink/bdsm porn is technically not even legal to possess in my part of the world, which is why I've been sticking to streaming to try and avoid any potential trouble (however unlikely it may be).

It's really bothersome when kinky content is readily available to purchase and download in my country, and yet potentially illegal to possess, shouldn't porn companies and governments have some sort of accountability? I guess that comes back to how readily available porn is in general, particularly to minors who can't make rational adult decisions about what they are watching on the internet.

Getting back to your concern, I personally think that finding someone of the opposite sex with similar attraction as you would help out a lot. I'm no doctor but I believe in the expression that another person can complete you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm only trying to help out.

I do actually have someone with whom I've been doing a bit of bdsm play. It's an entirely different feeling than when I am watching porn though. In real life my limits are pretty tame, I don't want permanent marks, I don't want to be beaten until I'm crying or yelling, I just want to enjoy a bit of pain/domination with the sexual elements. When I'm on a bdsm porn binge it's more about finding the most extreme thing I can and it's only then that I crave being part of the scenarios that I see unfold on the screen.

I think it has something to do with connecting with another person with a similar pain threshold/limits to my own. We like to switch between dominant and submissive roles so we each have an understanding of the amount of pain we are inflicting on each other. I don't really feel that level of empathy for the nameless performers on the computer screen :(

Good post, Taffer.

 

Porn is a touchy subject, even on here. I once asked out of curiosity what people thought about having "mainstream" porn playing muted on the TV during an encounter as background eroticism. More than you might guess were against it or thought it was lame, etc. To each, there own... which is where this discussion is likely to end up.

Yeah I get that, and that's perfectly alright. I don't think it has to be a touchy subject as long as people here have respect for the varying range of opinions and don't lash out or shame anyone else for their viewpoints. To each their own as you say, but I think there is still a worthwhile discussion to be had here. Porn is like the monster in the closet that no one wants to talk about.

I'm tired of hiding what I watch online and feeling deviant/alone/depressed/ashamed, so I decided to start this discussion and be honest about the kind of content I have encountered online, and how easily accessible it was for me as a teenager. I'm not saying it's right or wrong for certain categories of porn to exist, or that it is accessible to teens, but I think there is an important discussion to be had, and not just here but in among society as a whole. There are also some important potential positives to porn beyond freedom of sexual expression, it's well known that the rate of rape in society has plummeted with the rise of hardcore porn. I think it's important to analyse that fact for causation vs correlation before we consider restrictions on porn.

My own thoughts from reading your post are that you do have an addiction and you need to "nip this in the bud" before it blossoms into something you can't control... or don't want to. I'm not criticizing here but extremes of porn, like religion, can fuck you up and distort reality. Porn has become mainstream and I'm not necessarily against that. Why does much of society say watching people enjoy sexual pleasure on screen is bad but the latest John Wick movie showing dozens of murders is shrugged off as normal entertainment?

Too late for nipping anything :p I've been addicted for many years. I can't really blame porn entirely though, I'm just a lazy guy as well. I've also been addicted to videogames for even longer so I have many different routes of escapism from facing real life problems. Of course procrastination on real life problems never makes them go away, it just makes them 100x worse :(

I completely agree about the extreme porn and the comparison to violence in other mediums, what's extreme for me isn't extreme for other people. The problem is the extreme content I'm drawn to is deeply satisfying on a physical/sexual level, but not on an emotional level. It might sound sick for people who don't understand sadism/masochism, but seeing a woman in pain or imagining being in pain is an instant erection for me, I just can't seem to turn off the other part of my brain that wants to reach out and comfort someone who is in pain. I can't differentiate between them "enjoying" the pain vs unwanted pain, it all looks the same to the emotional part of my brain.

I think the difference is that the violence/aggression in movies/tv is actually fantasy whereas a lot of the violence, rough sex, and other acts in porn are actually happening to the performers on set. In a lot of porn they are actually taking that 12" "implement" up the butt and are potentially in pain, but it may be their best/only option to make a living wage. The porn director might not have mentioned anything about anal in the contract, they may have pressured the performer into it during the scene, threatening to revoke their pay/scrap the scene. Or in Bdsm they are actually being hit and beaten, maybe they enjoy it, maybe they don't, there are many reasons to get involved in porn from sexual expression/enjoyment to ensuring personal survival/financial security in a world where nothing is guaranteed.

It's a big world out there with lots of weird and/or nasty stuff or beautiful and loving experiences and everything in between. How you shape "your" world is up to you.

I think that's the problem, it doesn't always feel like it is up to me. Sometimes I'll enter a porn site with the intention to watch something fairly tame, and before I know it I've "stumbled" onto a pleather clad woman in high heels, with a 6 foot bullwhip and a strong distaste for men who aren't worshiping at her feet with sore balls :oops: I enjoy that fantasy, but again it's difficult for me to watch someone in immense pain when I wouldn't want/be able to cope with that level of pain myself. I'm all for having them squeezed but some of these guys are literally taking full force kicks to the nuts and don't appear to be enjoying it at all.

I don't know enough about addiction to say whether dialing it back is better than quitting cold turkey. As my signature line says, "moderation in everything, including moderation", which to me means keep extremism in check... until its necessary. Stay away from the extreme side of porn, if you can. If you occasionally need to watch it, don't beat yourself up afterwards. Just go back to the mainstream stuff. Extreme forms of anything are usually unhealthy. Balance is the key.

Cold turkey just hasn't worked for me, then again neither does dialing it back. Regardless of whether I watch "softer" porn once a day or go multiple days without porn, I still end up back in a binge session every 3-4 days. I guess I just don't have to motivation to stop the addictive behavior, so I'm not sure that any method is going to work without that. Unfortunately beating myself up seems to entirely subconscious and not within my control.

I'm not religious. I do practice some meditation and I have read up on Buddhism a bit. It helps keep my extremist tendencies in check and reduces my anxiety. I particularly have an interest in what it says about non-attachment for possessions... or desires.:)

I've read up on it but haven't got into meditation, I can't seem to turn my brain off long enough for that.

Bottom line, you're not weird or alone. Just keep an eye out for the extremist side of anything. I'd like to hear others thoughts as well.

 

All the best.

 

p.s. That will be $250. I accept bitcoin, no 3rd party checks. :)

I know, sometimes I just need to hear that by opening up to other people, rather than keeping these thoughts all bottled up inside. Thanks mate, and yeah nah my therapist charges half that per hour :D

I appreciate your honest responses to my post.

From a perspective of concern, I would encourage you to give meditation another try. Most people at the start cannot turn off their brain/thoughts and that rarely happens even with long-term practitioners. Like most new habits, it's crawl... walk... run. Instead of 100 thoughts a minute, meditating on your breath might reduce that to 99, then 90... before you know it you're moving to a monastery. :)

I mention this again only because stress seems to be at the root of a lot of addiction and other issues that can harm us over time.

Be well.

Porn is not inherently harmful or unhealthy.

Porn and sex addiction are not real disorders. They are not recognized by the American Psychiatric Association in the DSM-5, nor by the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists (AASECT).

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201212/sex-addiction-rejected-yet-again-apa

https://www.aasect.org/position-sex-addiction

Rather, the concept of sex and porn addiction is primarily used to pathologize the range of normal and healthy human sexual behaviours. This comess from a place of moralizing, not evidence. Consumption of porn, even when it's problematic for the individual, does not have the same effects on a person as real addictions do.

The belief that one is addicted to porn or sex is highly correlated with religiosity and having religious values that conflict with the sexual behaviour. Feelings of guilt and shame are strong predictors of identifying with porn addiction, regardless of how much or how frequently porn is used.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140212153252.htm

If the amount of time you're spending consuming porn is truly creating problems for you, absolutely do something about it. However, given that religious conditioning is sticky and can run deep, I can't help but wonder how the time you're spending consuming porn compares to the time you spend with other forms of entertainment or procrastination, such as video games, internet browsing, or watching TV.

I appreciate your concerns about ethical porn consumption. There is certainly porn that is being produced in unethical ways. It sounds like your concerns are twofold: That some BDSM acts are too extreme for genuine, healthy consent, and that porn is produced under unethical conditions.

For the former, it sounds like, in spite of saying that you don't empathize with performers, you are actually over empathizing and projecting your own experiences and desires on to the performers. Even if the things you enjoy watching are things that you wouldn't actually want to do, I think for your own peace of mind, it's important to realize and really believe that there are people who genuinely enjoy those acts, including things like extreme pain or degradation. People pay me very well for that experience.

The experience and motivations around extreme pain can also be very complex. You may not see enjoyment on the face of a performer, because extreme experience are often not enjoyable in the same way that strictly pleasurable sensations are. That is not to diminish the full consent or the rewards of such an experience, but extreme BDSM is often a physical and psychological experience less like vanilla sex, and more akin to running a marathon.

I've also hit a wall with bdsm, I'm so conflicted on it and I can't see how anyone can draw a clear line between what is kinky fun and what is abuse. Sure the line is technically consent, but some people consent to giving up safe words and/or living their entire lives as someone else's "slave", how can that be considered "sane" consent?

In situations where people choose not to use safewords, or commit to being a lifestyle slave, there is still on going consent. These types of situations certainly have the potential to become abusive (as is true of all relationships), but healthy BDSM power dynamics are always built on the concept of on-going consent. A slave can always leave; even without safewords the bottom can always say no. In fact, both playing without safewords and lifestyle slavery place a heightened responsibility on the top/dom to know the bottom/sub extremely well, prioritize their safety and well being, and have the awareness and self control to avoid doing anything that would harm the bottom/sub.

Obviously with the extremely limited context of what you see on screen it can be difficult or impossible to assess how healthy an interaction is or how genuinely consent is being given.

Which comes to the second point, on ethical porn consumption.

Ethically produced media can mean a lot of different things, but when I think ethical porn, I think of porn where the performers are all paid well, their consent and boundaries are respected throughout the whole production, they have a say in what they do on screen, their health and safety is well attended to, the set is free of sexual harassment, and concepts and language that would be harmful outside of the scene are avoided or explored with care inside the production (particularly around racism and transphobia.) Maybe there are other criteria that would make porn ethical to you.

I'm really pleased to see that you pay for porn - without people willing to pay for porn there can be no ethical porn industry. Particularly for small producers who are looking to do right by their performers, piracy is a huge issue.

If you're considering buying a membership, a rental, or purchasing a video, do some research on the production company, director and performers first. What are their values? Do performers think highly of them? Do the directors and performers have a good reputation? Do they do before and after interviews on screen? Do the performers have a social media presence where they can communicate directly with the public?

There are also many reputable independent porn producers - perhaps they will have something in their collections that appeal to you. Googling "feminist porn" may be a good starting point.

I hope that being deliberate about your porn consumption and adjusting your framework for thinking about it helps ease your internal conflict a bit. There's no reason that porn can't be consumed ethically and be a health part of your sexuality.

First of all, I'd like to acknowledge that I've pushed this topic into a bit of a tangent. It was initially meant to be a broad discussion on porn, the current porn industry, and potential societal effects, rather than a tangent discussion on my own potentially problematic hangups related to porn. I do appreciate people taking the time to try and help me with my own personal issues, but I also don't want to discourage people from the wider reaching discussion of porn in general.

Porn is not inherently harmful or unhealthy.

 

Agreed, everything exists on a scale of potential harm vs potential reward, porn is in there somewhere. It really bothers me when the porn addiction community makes silly comparisons of porn vs smoking. Hmm, 1000x increased risk of cancer, vs minor fatigue after an orgasm, that's a tough one.

 

Porn and sex addiction are not real disorders. They are not recognized by the American Psychiatric Association in the DSM-5, nor by the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists (AASECT).

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201212/sex-addiction-rejected-yet-again-apa

https://www.aasect.org/position-sex-addiction

 

While technically true, it's also true the DSM has in the past, classified BDSM as deviant and unhealthy behavior in all of it's forms. I tend to think of the DSM and psychology in general as an ever evolving set of guidelines, which don't always apply perfectly to any particular individual.

 

It's interesting that you have pointed out the lack of recognition of porn/sex addiction, and then you form your thoughts in favor of that position. It kind of indicates to me that you have chosen a position, and the concrete evidence for that position is then of secondary importance. In other words, it's analogous to putting the cart before the horse.

 

Rather, the concept of sex and porn addiction is primarily used to pathologize the range of normal and healthy human sexual behaviours. This comess from a place of moralizing, not evidence. Consumption of porn, even when it's problematic for the individual, does not have the same effects on a person as real addictions do.

 

How do you define a "real" addiction? I am inclined to believe that there is certainly quite a difference between substance addiction, and behavioral addiction, but are either of them any less real? Getting back to the DSM, they are still dragging their heels/deliberating on how/whether to classify compulsive and potentially harmful sexual activity as a behavioral addiction, but when you take it logically at face value, sex is a human behavior just as gambling, or internet use are also human behaviors. I'd say it's important to avoid getting hung up on the terminology, and focus more on the lived experiences of people who have difficulty controlling their sexual behavior.

 

Morals plays only a small role in my own compulsive use of porn. Certainly it does come into play when viewing porn that to me is "extreme", but the main issue is the compulsive behavior that overrides my other goals in life. The compulsive drive for porn leads me to avoidance of other important responsibilities, it leads me to seek out porn for which I can't always verify ethical production, for increased variety and the accompanying dopamine high of novelty (free porn tube sites), and it leads me toward viewing content that I am increasingly uncomfortable with for a greater dopamine hit. It also leads me towards risky sexual behavior in real life, for which the compulsion overrides safety precautions and potential consequences. If you take porn that I have moral issues with out of the equation (there is very little of that), we are still left with the other indicators of addiction.

 

The belief that one is addicted to porn or sex is highly correlated with religiosity and having religious values that conflict with the sexual behaviour. Feelings of guilt and shame are strong predictors of identifying with porn addiction, regardless of how much or how frequently porn is used.

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140212153252.htm

 

I'm not at all surprised. I can certainly understand how a religious background would be conducive to self diagnosing as an addict, even when many of the indicators of addiction are absent. However I feel it's important to point out that just because there are many who self identify as porn addicts and lack addictive tendencies, doesn't mean behavioral sex addiction doesn't exist. The number of people addicted to sex/porn isn't really important to me on an individual level, what's important to me is the knowledge that my own porn use is compulsive, time consuming, overrides ethical considerations, is unrewarding in relation to the time invested and even potentially dangerous. I am not ashamed of the majority of content I watch (aside for that which may be unethical), I embrace my sexuality in all of it's forms, as long as there is no harm to anyone involved.

 

Unfortunately the religious moralists on the porn addiction forums make up the majority, and it makes it very difficult for someone like myself who is sex positive to have an open and honest discussion there and actually figure out a solution. They don't seem to understand that abuse of porn is the problem, not porn itself. Abstaining from porn seems to be the catch all solution, whereas I see it as a bandaid that doesn't treat the underlying problem of behavioral addiction. The goal should be to alter the behavior, not to do away with it entirely, binge eaters don't stop consuming food.

 

If the amount of time you're spending consuming porn is truly creating problems for you, absolutely do something about it. However, given that religious conditioning is sticky and can run deep, I can't help but wonder how the time you're spending consuming porn compares to the time you spend with other forms of entertainment or procrastination, such as video games, internet browsing, or watching TV.

 

This seems like a misconception regarding how addiction presents. I don't think it is so much the amount of time spent engaging with an activity that defines an addictive behavior. I can, and often do spend hours a day playing video games, but there is almost never a point where I feel as though I can't spend less time doing it when I really want/need to be doing something else. There are no serious negative consequences to gaming for me, it feels far more rewarding, and it doesn't effect my mental state to nearly the same degree as binging on porn.

 

I don't feel compelled to seek out increasingly violent video games as I do for bdsm porn, I don't ignore the well being of the performers on screen to get my fix (because video games don't have real people on set). I don't spend hours sifting through new and exciting video games, getting bored every 10 seconds like I do with porn videos. The addiction markers just aren't there for video games like they are for porn.

 

Masturbating to porn and escalating through increasingly novel/extreme content is a dopamine high for me that just doesn't happen elsewhere. I can literally feel the dopamine surge flowing through my brain, it's more stimulating than any other activity, even sex. Orgasm further alters the chemical balance in the body/mind. Stringing together 6 orgasms in one night leaves me feeling absolutely terrible, depressed, weak and emotionally numb, and that feeling extends well into the next day.

 

It's funny that you say I should do something about it, I think that's what truly separates an addiction from normal behavior, when you realize how difficult it is to stop/alter the behavior. I've tried many different ways of dealing with this, I've gone to such extremes as cutting the internet for 3 weeks. I've tried masturbating everyday in an attempt to substitute it for porn, I've tried having sex more often. It just doesn't work, out of all the things I've tried to cut down/alter the binge behavior I haven't found the answer yet.

 

Even when watching porn normally once per day I still feel the need to binge twice a week, often when I'm feeling depressed. This is how I know it's an addiction, when I'm not craving a porn binge, I want to change my behavior, but when I am craving it, life isn't worth living without a porn binge. It's not about the time spent on an activity, it's about how stimulating and potentially destructive the activity is for a particular individual, and how difficult it is for them to change when they want to.

 

I appreciate your concerns about ethical porn consumption. There is certainly porn that is being produced in unethical ways. It sounds like your concerns are twofold: That some BDSM acts are too extreme for genuine, healthy consent, and that porn is produced under unethical conditions.

 

For the former, it sounds like, in spite of saying that you don't empathize with performers, you are actually over empathizing and projecting your own experiences and desires on to the performers. Even if the things you enjoy watching are things that you wouldn't actually want to do, I think for your own peace of mind, it's important to realize and really believe that there are people who genuinely enjoy those acts, including things like extreme pain or degradation. People pay me very well for that experience.

 

The experience and motivations around extreme pain can also be very complex. You may not see enjoyment on the face of a performer, because extreme experience are often not enjoyable in the same way that strictly pleasurable sensations are. That is not to diminish the full consent or the rewards of such an experience, but extreme BDSM is often a physical and psychological experience less like vanilla sex, and more akin to running a marathon.

 

The problem is my concern for performers seems to only be present when I'm not craving extreme porn. Once that craving hits it overrides everything else, suddenly I'm back on pornhub (or sketchier sites), and it's all about one thing, getting that fix, feeling that rush, and numbing any depression.

 

As far as people who might enjoy extreme bdsm, what I rationally believe has little to do it, It's what I feel after watching it that matters. Sometime I crave being severely beaten by a woman, beaten until I emotionally break, cry, scream, etc. I know that I wouldn't fully enjoy it, not because I am ashamed of submitting to and being broken by a woman, it's actually quite a turn on, but simply because I don't find excruciating pain to be at all enjoyable on any level. It's a craving/compulsion that compels me to engage in the activity, or to watch it happen in porn, but I know I wouldn't be able to handle the level of pain that I crave, and it would probably be traumatizing long term.

 

That's what I am projecting on to these people engaging in extreme bdsm, because I know what it's like to crave something that you don't really want, to be conflicted on something and yet driven towards it at the same time by some invisible force, it's the difference between healthy engagement and unhealthy engagement. Healthy engagement in bdsm for me is relatively tame pain limits, I mainly enjoy the aspect of submission. Unhealthy engagement is craving the pain even when I'm no longer enjoying it, and that's why I can't watch this type of porn and assume everyone is in a healthy state of mind. I'm not saying those people don't exist, I just can't wrap my subconscious reaction/emotions around the concept of enjoying extreme pain.

 

In situations where people choose not to use safewords, or commit to being a lifestyle slave, there is still on going consent. These types of situations certainly have the potential to become abusive (as is true of all relationships), but healthy BDSM power dynamics are always built on the concept of on-going consent. A slave can always leave; even without safewords the bottom can always say no. In fact, both playing without safewords and lifestyle slavery place a heightened responsibility on the top/dom to know the bottom/sub extremely well, prioritize their safety and well being, and have the awareness and self control to avoid doing anything that would harm the bottom/sub.

 

Obviously with the extremely limited context of what you see on screen it can be difficult or impossible to assess how healthy an interaction is or how genuinely consent is being given.

 

Exactly, it is impossible for me to know how healthy any given interaction is, and particularly difficult for me to believe that someone in a 24/7 slave relationship is mentally sane. It is difficult for me to determine where consent ends, and Stockholm syndrome begins, which is why I would never personally engage in such a relationship. Many people have the opportunity to leave abusive relationships, and they choose to stay regardless, this is what we call Stockholm syndrome.

 

Which comes to the second point, on ethical porn consumption.

 

Ethically produced media can mean a lot of different things, but when I think ethical porn, I think of porn where the performers are all paid well, their consent and boundaries are respected throughout the whole production, they have a say in what they do on screen, their health and safety is well attended to, the set is free of sexual harassment, and concepts and language that would be harmful outside of the scene are avoided or explored with care inside the production (particularly around racism and transphobia.) Maybe there are other criteria that would make porn ethical to you.

 

I'm really pleased to see that you pay for porn - without people willing to pay for porn there can be no ethical porn industry. Particularly for small producers who are looking to do right by their performers, piracy is a huge issue.

 

If you're considering buying a membership, a rental, or purchasing a video, do some research on the production company, director and performers first. What are their values? Do performers think highly of them? Do the directors and performers have a good reputation? Do they do before and after interviews on screen? Do the performers have a social media presence where they can communicate directly with the public?

 

There are also many reputable independent porn producers - perhaps they will have something in their collections that appeal to you. Googling "feminist porn" may be a good starting point.

 

I hope that being deliberate about your porn consumption and adjusting your framework for thinking about it helps ease your internal conflict a bit. There's no reason that porn can't be consumed ethically and be a health part of your sexuality.

 

I agree, and I appreciate the advice.

Here are my thoughts on whether you should pay for porn, how much to watch and whether it distorts reality.

I watch porn but I actually buy the dvd. Not paying for people's work is similar to stealing. Same goes for books, music and the like. One can argue that artists can find other ways to get compensated but that's only because they had to get creative with compensation to handle the large masses that have no qualms about not paying. The people I know that download free music are also ones to complain loud and long about not getting fully compensated for their efforts. Go figure.

If I were single I may watch porn more but my wife knows I watch it. I don't hide it from her. I did when we first lived together but she caught me once and we discussed it and she's not concerned. Mostly because it is "mainstream" stuff and I still manage to go to work, exercise, hang with friends... basically, I maintain a "normal" life and it hasn't morphed into addiction territory from her perspective.

Does porn distort a persons reality about sex? For some, yes. Can it lead to consumption of ever more extreme versions? Obviously. Does that make it bad? Steak isn't necessarily bad(except for the cow) but when you eat too much it's not healthy. Porn on it's own isn't bad but it has potential to corrupt if you aren't careful. That's true of lots of things. Gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back...

As I said before, I have minimal experience with addiction except to say that I understand people struggle mightily with their addictions. It's not an easy thing to conquer. I do have experience with depression and anxiety and, like addiction, can be overwhelming at times. Of the several CBT techniques I've read up on I found meditation and exercise worked best for me.

Here are my thoughts on whether you should pay for porn, how much to watch and whether it distorts reality.

 

I watch porn but I actually buy the dvd. Not paying for people's work is similar to stealing. Same goes for books, music and the like. One can argue that artists can find other ways to get compensated but that's only because they had to get creative with compensation to handle the large masses that have no qualms about not paying. The people I know that download free music are also ones to complain loud and long about not getting fully compensated for their efforts. Go figure.

Dvd eh? how about that y2k :D A lot of amateur performers release porn for "free" these days, they make their money via premium pornhub subscribers, advertising revenue, and live cams. It's very similar to the Youtube monetization scheme. I do at least pay 10$ a month for a premium pornhub sub, but it's hardly supporting all of the performers in the industry. It's all digital these days, can't remember the last time I've seen a dvd floating around, since Bluray has been out for 10 years now.

If I were single I may watch porn more but my wife knows I watch it. I don't hide it from her. I did when we first lived together but she caught me once and we discussed it and she's not concerned. Mostly because it is "mainstream" stuff and I still manage to go to work, exercise, hang with friends... basically, I maintain a "normal" life and it hasn't morphed into addiction territory from her perspective.

They say honesty is the best policy, she must be very open minded to allow you to visit escorts as well.

Does porn distort a persons reality about sex? For some, yes. Can it lead to consumption of ever more extreme versions? Obviously. Does that make it bad? Steak isn't necessarily bad(except for the cow) but when you eat too much it's not healthy. Porn on it's own isn't bad but it has potential to corrupt if you aren't careful. That's true of lots of things. Gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back...

I would hope many of us are intelligent enough to realize that mainstream porn isn't an accurate portrayal of real sex, but then I do tend to overshoot the mark on my faith in humanity :biggrin:

As I said before, I have minimal experience with addiction except to say that I understand people struggle mightily with their addictions. It's not an easy thing to conquer. I do have experience with depression and anxiety and, like addiction, can be overwhelming at times. Of the several CBT techniques I've read up on I found meditation and exercise worked best for me.

Agreed, exercise and vitamin D for depression, chamomile tea for anxiety. Perhaps I'll give meditation another go.

Just a quick update, I think I've found a healthier outlet/source for more extreme fantasies in the form of literature/literotica. Not only are there plenty of kinky stories in every imaginable category, but I can also craft my own from my personal fantasies and contribute to the community. Seems to be a good way to avoid visual porn that is just to "extreme" for me to avoid irrational obsessions over the performers wellbeing.

Concerns about the negative effects of porn are very real:

I wouldn't be surprised if seeing SPs can have similar effects. Wonder if anyone has looked into it?