Soldier gave women STD, charges say

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I'm flabbergasted that this is being brought to trial. I think it's a very dangerous prosecutorial effort.

The soldier in question is brought up on charges that he has sex with a number of women without disclosing that he had genital herpes, and is now charged with aggravated sexual assault and criminal negligence causing bodily harm.

The problem I see with this is that HSV-2 (genital herpes) is distinguished from HSV-1 (cold sores) by site preference -- the former preferring the ganglia at the base of the spine, and the latter preferring the ganglia in the jaw. Otherwise, as infections go, they are indistinguishable. If anything, cold sores are more disfiguring and stigmatizing.

If this case proceeds unchecked, then what precedent is set? Friends of ours recently had a baby. In the past, I have observed him to have cold sores. Undoubtedly, he has kissed the child's mother (thereby infecting her with the virus, whether she exhibits symptoms of infection or not). If either parent now kisses this child and the child is infected with HSV-1 -- cold sores -- are they then guilty of child abuse? Criminal negligence causing bodily harm and disfigurement?

Can this child then sue her parents as an adult for disfiguring her?

This is one of those situations where a crown prosecutor is biting off more than s/he can chew -- and the ramifications may well be felt decades down the line.

The guy knows he has a STD and seems to have exhibited no discretion in spreading it around. If he were HIV positive, would you be so forgiving or wish to seek prosecution then?

No, of course not -- because HIV is a potentially fatal disease. However, genital herpes is no more serious than cold sores. Do you have any idea what percentage of the general population has suffered from cold sores? Surely, we're not going to criminalize the spreading of that.

It's like the difference between spreading a common cold and spreading tuberculosis.

Most people are infected with HSV-1 -- which is exactly the same disease as HSV-2 (genital herpes) except for site preference -- in their infancy, and the person who gives it to them is usually a family member.

HSV-1 -- cold sores -- can be debilitating, and are disfiguring and stigmatizing.

My question is, are we going to start charging people who know they have cold sores with infecting their children by kissing them?

Let me ask you this: if a guy has ever in his life had a cold sore, do you feel he has an obligation to disclose this to an SP before meeting with her?

Because, after all, it can inhibit our ability to work if we were to have one.

This is a common complaint that I've heard from many SPs, that a guy showed up with a cold sore, wanting to do DATY or kiss. Even if a guy does DATY with a cold sore, although the first lesion (if there is one) may well show up in the genital area, subsequent lesions may show up on her face.

So if you believe that this man should be charged, then you are saying that any person who has ever had a cold sore must disclose this to any other person they intend to have any sort of oral sex with -- including fellatio, cunnilingus, and mouth kissing. And it even extends to innocent mouth kissing between family members and friends.

Are we really prepared to go there?

Actually, once you are infected with cold sores, you are also infected for life. And while most people experience only the occasional outbreak around the mouth, others experience more serious complications, including blindness. Others, though infected, never experience an outbreak -- or may experience their first one years or even decades after infection.

There really is no difference between genital herpes and cold sores except which end of the body the virus infects. People assume "herpes" always means genital herpes, but a number of other human diseases are caused by herpes family viruses, including chicken pox (and "shingles" -- the latent form) and Epstein-Barr.

Cold sores are probably more widespread than genital herpes because most people get infected as children, through kissing and close contact with family members and other infected children. While there is palpable panic about avoiding transmission of genital herpes, it's odd that there is almost no effort to protect children from being infected with cold sores -- although some cold sore suffers go on to experience serious complications, and outbreaks tend to be very traumatizing and painful for many.

I agree that there may be more to this story, but it sort of reminds me of the case of the kid down in Kingston, back in the early 90s, who was accused of "date rape" by several young women, and brought up on charges. Date rape is a very real crime, but unfortunately, this particular case didn't clearly fit the scenario. Rather than call public attention to the seriousness of date rape, this case had the opposite effect of watering it down and calling doubt upon victims alleging it. Sometimes prosecutors rush to file charges without fully thinking through the implications.

I believe this is one of those cases. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds and what the long-term implications will be.

Actually, once you are infected with cold sores, you are also infected for life. And while most people experience only the occasional outbreak around the mouth, others experience more serious complications, including blindness. Others, though infected, never experience an outbreak -- or may experience their first one years or even decades after infection.

 

There really is no difference between genital herpes and cold sores except which end of the body the virus infects. People assume "herpes" always means genital herpes, but a number of other human diseases are caused by herpes family viruses, including chicken pox (and "shingles" -- the latent form) and Epstein-Barr.

 

Cold sores are probably more widespread than genital herpes because most people get infected as children, through kissing and close contact with family members and other infected children. While there is palpable panic about avoiding transmission of genital herpes, it's odd that there is almost no effort to protect children from being infected with cold sores -- although some cold sore suffers go on to experience serious complications, and outbreaks tend to be very traumatizing and painful for many.

Unfortunately, Herpes simplex and the pox virus are two completely different things.. but there is a type of herpes meningitis... (something I would definitely worry about picking up.)

I believe you're thinking of herpes zoster, (or varicella zoster) which I believe is related to chicken pox (or is another name for chicken pox, I can't remember)...

"Herpes" actually refers to "viral diseases causing eruptions of the skin or mucous membrane " ... it's the ending you have to worry about.

HSV-1 or HSV-2 can cause genital herpes... Either can cause clusters to form on the genitals... So going down on someone with a cold sore could be infecting them with a lifelong battle... as some people are resistant to the drugs that keep the symptoms of the virus away. (swelling, sores, pain, itching, ect...)

They also believe herpes has an association with Bell's palsy and Alzheimer's disease...

As long as it is a reportable std, and one that by law the individual is obligated to disclose, then yes, he can and should be charged. It is not the case of his passing it along to one other person, but several. These are the 6 who contracted it and were used as evidence. As such we have every reason to believe there are far more victims out there, plus the few who were lucky eough not to contract it tho they were exposed.

For these 6 and however many others, their choice was taken away from them, just as it would have been had he had been diagnosed with HIV/AIDs

For sure! That's how I feel when someone comes to see me with an active cold sore, and then wants to kiss me. I have never had a cold sore, but if I ever got one after meeting with someone who wasn't considerate enough to wait until his outbreak passed, I think I'd want him dead. Being a woman, and being in this business, the last thing I'd need is for someone to give me something that leaves me facially disfigured, and put me at risk for blindness, Bell's Palsy, etc. I'd want the bastard in jail, or at least I'd want to be able to sue him for my damages.

But that's how I feel emotionally. What I know intellectually tells me that is a bit ridiculous. Here's what I found on Wikipedia:

"Some people experience negative feelings related to the condition following diagnosis, particularly if they have acquired the genital form of the disease. Feelings can include depression, fear of rejection, feelings of isolation, fear of being found out, self-destructive feelings, and fear of masturbation.[106] These feelings usually lessen over time. Much of the hysteria and stigma surrounding herpes stems from a media campaign beginning in the late 1970s and peaking in the early 1980s. There were multiple articles worded in fear-mongering and anxiety-provoking terminology, such as the now ubiquitous "attacks," "outbreaks," "victims," and "sufferers." At one point the term "herpetic" even entered the popular lexicon. The articles were published by Reader's Digest, U.S. News, and Time magazine, among others. A made-for-TV movie was named Intimate Agony. The peak was when Time magazine had 'Herpes: The New Scarlet Letter' on the cover in August 1982, forever stigmatizing the word in the public mind.[89] The scientific reality is that most people are asymptomatic, the virus causes no real health problems for a vast majority of people, and a vast majority of the Earth's population carries HSV-1, 2, or both."

Still, that said, it is really rude for guys to show up with active cold sores.

If this case makes it through the courts, I would not be surprised to see someone charged with transmitting cold sores to another person -- or at the very least sued for it.

You have to keep in mind that even though you hear about strange or ridiculous cases getting pushed through the courts, lawyers and judges are very intelligent people who know a thing or two about common sense.

I dunno! We've seen some notable exceptions. Remember that escort agency that was charged back in the 90s here in Ottawa? When the owner/operator died, the crown decided to bring the bookkeeper up on charges. !!! The judge threw it out, of course, but not before that poor woman got dragged through a very expensive and unpleasant experience. And for what? Doing books?

Friends of mine out west got brought up on negligent homicide charges over a skydiving accident. She was arrested and put in handcuffs while waiting with her son and several other kids and their parents at the bus stop. They went through more than two years of sheer hell, and again, it was tossed after the judge heard the crown's case.

I'm glad you have so much faith in the courts and in our prosecutors. Probably most of them do a great job and do exercise common sense -- but we've seen enough times when they don't to cast doubt in my mind. Genital herpes -- while I'm sure no one would want to get it -- doesn't seem all that serious to me. Having studied both extensively throughout my career, I will go on record as saying that, if I had to have one, I'd rather have the genital variety. There is nothing, in my view, more disfiguring to a woman's beauty than a big old ugly cold sore.

The guy knows he has a STD and seems to have exhibited no discretion in spreading it around. If he were HIV positive, would you be so forgiving or wish to seek prosecution then?

I have to say I feel the same way. whether it was HIV or Herpes, both are with you for life and can have very negative effects on your mental state, how you conduct yourself sexually and your physical health.

I doubt any of these six women are breathing any sigh of relief that he "only gave them herpes...phewf! at least its not HIV"

an STD is an STD

I had a call with a client who grilled me about getting sexually tested. I assured him of my testing schedule and even still he kinda scoffed and said "well I'm sure that some girls know they have something and just work anyway coz they're low on cash right?"

whaaaat????

it boils down to morals, and what he did was morally wrong...if he was aware of his condition and didnt tell his partners he really does deserve to be sued.....that cant be compared to giving someone a cold-sore by accident.

and did I read that wrong or did he only get charged with $3,000 and having his online priviledges taken away? what a slap on the wrist

Those are his bail conditions. His next court appearance is March 4.

gotcha. regardless, it still seems a little light, hopefully his next charges dont make it sound like hes being grounded

Nope, it's not a reportable disease -- and I don't believe that there is any legal requirement to disclose at the present time. (Could legislation be made from the bench?)

20% seems a bit low -- but then, I take HSV 1 & 2 together, since both can be transmitted sexually. Also, that could be only 20% of sexually active Canadians are symptomatic for one or both -- many more could be infected and not be symptomatic.

I have seen thousands of customers, and been contacted by tens of thousands over the years, and not once has anyone disclosed to me that they had HSV. (...although I have had a couple guys show up with cold sores)

If this case proceeds, how will it affect us here?

Will any SP who has ever had a cold sore or an outbreak of genital herpes need to disclose this in her advertising? In her private communications with prospective customers?

Will customers have to disclose this to us?

Since the overwhelming majority of people infected with HSV are asymptomatic, and since it's possible for HSV to be transmitted in the absence of visible symptoms, will all this disclosure do any good?

In my case, I've never had an outbreak of either oral or genital herpes. I've also, to the best of my knowledge, never been tested for HSV-1 or HSV-2. (It isn't part of routine testing. If someone says they have been tested, I'd be suspicious because various available testing measures are not considered to be reliable in the absence of lesions, and generally aren't considered to justify costs in the presence of them.)

And yet, since it is thought that the majority of people infected with and/or carrying HSV are asymptomatic and haven't been tested, how will my disclosure help anyone?

This case looks to me like a situation where someone is being persecuted for having been diagnosed, possibly treated, for something that many other people have never been diagnosed with or treated for, and yet have. How will this increase people's eagerness to seek a diagnosis and treatment.

Sorry, this prosecutor is way out of line.

Yes, I saw that too. Hopefully they can nail him on the kiddy porn charge. The other charge would truly open a massive can of worms.