wellie 652 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 In a recent thread It never fails... but why? there were a lot of complaints about clients asking ladies for rates information. This thread is NOT about specific rates for individual ladies. It is about rates across the escort business. Rates are presumably determined by market factors. Each lady sets a rate that she thinks her customers are prapared to pay. Now rates among SPs and MPs vary. What are the factors that determine the variation in these rates? I can give a few suggestions: attractiveness, popularity (by word of mouth and exposure in CERB), experience, type of service offered (massage, GFE, PSE), age (very young and very old command lower rates), effective marketing. Did I leave out anything? For example, is location related (Halifax, Montreal, Ottawa, Belleville, Toronto, Vancouver)? What, in your experience, is the range of rates across Canada? Do some rates seem to be out of line (too low or too high) and what effect does that have on business? (Please do not mention specific ladies). XOs to all, Wellie :-P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucken 1479 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 I would say location is definitely a factor, as competition is likely to have an impact IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jg24 3707 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 well back in 1980 I paid $100 to $120 Today is different but not by much I think the services provided today are much more superior than the 80s not saying they were bad back then just not the same. When you see the higher rates it is travelling ladies for the most part and have expenses Hotels,resturants airfare thus part of the reason Travelling ladies can be a little higher priced as they know us men will endulge because we dont get the everyday chance to see them Local ladies may be a little lower priced depending on competition as in any bussiness Just my opinion not saying Im correct or not just my thoughts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andee 220524 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 You are definitely going to stir the pot with this one Wellie. I am wondering what your motivation is. I think you are full of it when you say "very young and very old command lower prices". Where did you come up with that? Since there is no "going" rate - we are not governed by some union rules or legislated rate guidelines, believe ladies set their rates according to what they believe the market will bear. Sometimes they are realistic in their thinking - other times they are way off and learn the lesson when their phone doesn't ring. Some ladies who charge low rates do so to get the volume, or they don't know any better to charge more. Often young girls getting into the business will reason that $80 or $100 is better than working at Timmies. This is especially true with some agencies who charge $180 for the hour and give the girl $90 and keep $90 for the fee and driver. Maybe some ladies do not believe they are attractive enough to charge more. Maybe some are financially strapped and are desperate for the money. Some have habits to support and will adjust their rates to suit their desperateness. Then there are some unattractive ladies who charge high prices and wonder why they don't get a lot of calls. Then there are some attractive ladies who charge a little less than they could be, because they're happy with that number, or want to maintain volume. Then there are some attractive ladies who charge very high rates, hoping to attract a more elite type clientele. The reasons and factors are varied - I believe there is no "right" or "wrong" answers. Yes, some cities, like Montreal, seem to operate on a lower rate structure, but you still have your $300 an hour SPs living there. Age and attractiveness usually are what we consider the driving forces. But I also believe, attitude level of service and other things dictate the bottom line of how popular an SP is going to be. I learned that when I got into the business and thought I was too chunky to be an SP and learned very quickly that there is something for everyone and if you're willing to provide good service, there will always be someone out there who will be willing to see you. :butt: 16 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wellie 652 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 You are definitely going to stir the pot with this one Wellie. I am wondering what your motivation is. I think you are full of it when you say "very young and very old command lower prices". Where did you come up with that? A great post, Angela. Very informative. Your answer is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to stimulate. I have no hidden motivation except to learn more about this complex topic. As far as the age reference, I knew I could get in trouble for that. But you say yourself that very young ones (say 19-20) should not expect the same rate as experienced 35 year olds with great reputations. As for very old, I would say that a lady probably has to lower her expectations after she turns 70. You Angela, are a mere babe on the age curve. BTW the avatar you used in your post is very appropriate. :p Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mod 135639 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 A lot has to do with supply and demand as well. If no one is paying the price she is asking... the prices will go down and if she is getting overwhelmed with calls the prices will go up (just like any business). Unless of course she wants the high volume of calls. The type of guy she wants to attract as well... no one wants the guy who takes back his empty bottles and raids the couch for loose change to get laid. EWE! The ladies want generous gentlemen (Men with deep pockets are very hot to many ladies... us guys often stare at the ladies breasts where many ladies just want to know what kind of plastic you have in your wallet). - I am probably going to get a slap from that comment (and I know very well not all ladies are like that so please don't hang me for that comment - but we all know many women are attracted to money and not physical attributes) The local economy also makes a huge difference. If you live in a area where very few people are wealthy the rates are not going to be as high if the ladies want to work in your area... usually what happens is the ladies leave that area and go to bigger cities. In cities like Montreal where they have a LOT more ladies in the business the prices drop as well (They often have price wars as the area may have too much competition) so you have ladies who could easily charge 300+ per hour in other cities working for 100-/hr at times when competition gets tough. Not many ladies can work on high volumes of calls in this business for long periods of time and be happy.... and lower rates often means higher volume or too high level of competition as I mentioned above. In a market like Ottawa someone charging 100.00 may do 6 calls a day (or more) and probably have to turn down calls as the phone will be ringing non-stop so they can easily reach that goal but that is a lot of work so the lady would be soar, tired and just burnt out after a few days of that .... someone charging 300.00 per hour and only doing 2 or 3 calls a day makes the same (if not more) money. Those ladies have less calls to deal with and are generally a lot less stress. This would improve the quality of the experience a great deal as well in most cases. Many guys think the ladies should charge less... but that only benefits the guys!! Some guys will complain about the ladies rates being too high but if she is doing lots of calls at those rates and meeting her goals she DOES NOT need a guy like that. Lowering her rates and doing more volume may look like a smart way to do business but in this business it just leads to bad service, tired providers and a very unhappy lady who is burnt out... then those same guys will post nasty crap about her saying her service was poor. We always say if the rate is too high for you either save up or find someone else (don't be ignorant and complain about it be a gentleman and move on to someone in your price range). The lady charging 300.00/hr will say "I need to do two calls a day on average to meet my goals" and if she does not get enough calls to keep her busy enough to maintain this income level the donation amount will go down and the number of calls she takes per day will go up until she reaches her goal or she sets new goals. I can't afford a Ferrari so I don't drive one, I dream about driving one but I don't get mad and complain to Ferrari and tell them they need to lower the prices of the car so that the average person can buy one too. Maybe one day I will save up and buy one.... but right now I drive a Ford as my daily driver. It's nice, it's reliable, it's comfy and I like it... it's not a Ferrari but I am not complaining. 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newton 714 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 I agree that in general price is determined by supply and demand. But I always feel the pricing of sex work is somewhat different because product or service is not identical. Therefore product differentiation is possible and premium pricing could be achieved if done smartly. Let's face it - don't flame me, French wine and Canadian wine are more of the same taste to an undiscerning drinker, but they command vastly different prices. Branding makes the difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrie Moon 68826 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 I can't afford a Ferrari so I don't drive one, I dream about driving one but I don't get mad and complain to Ferrari and tell them they need to lower the prices of the car so that the average person can buy one too. Maybe one day I will save up and buy one.... but right now I drive a Ford as my daily driver. It's nice, it's reliable, it's comfy and I like it... it's not a Ferrari but I am not complaining. ha! I drive a ford too :) I don't even want a ferrari... just not my style.. but I would like a BMW! I like comfort not speed in the case of a car at least :) and yes. you are correct.. that a gentlemen who bargains with us will lose respect in our eyes coming from a professional perspective BUT in my personal life I don't look at a guy's wallet. Yes. He should be able to pay his own way in life but I'm not materialistic. After all I earn enough money to take care of myself. Angela! As always you make great points! hugs. Carrie. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A***** A***** 510 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 (Men with deep pockets are very hot to many ladies... us guys often stare at the ladies breasts where many ladies just want to know what kind of plastic you have in your wallet). - I am probably going to get a slap from that comment (and I know very well not all ladies are like that so please don't hang me for that comment - but we all know many women are attracted to money and not physical attributes) IMHO I thought that was funny:lol: But then again, I do have a strange sense of humor8-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrie Moon 68826 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 (edited) age (very young and very old command lower rates), Already covered well by Angela but want to add my nickel.. I have a friend in Toronto who only started escorting at 40. She is now 68 but because of her age/stamina she can't accomodate as many clients as someone younger. Ladies in her age bracket are very rare so she does well in the US when she goes on tour and in Calgary.. but not as well in Toronto for some reason. Toronto definitely has a lot of competition compared to other smaller Canadian cities. On another note.. when I got busted back in the early 90's in Toronto I left my incall and went to work with another girl who's dad was a judge so I felt safe enough not to get busted again. She only charged 70 bucks which was basically 1/2 my rate. I couldn't very well charge my normal rate so I went by another name and charged that as well.. obviously with my identical description. I was sure that with such a low rate I would have double the bookings.. I was dead wrong!!! I actually had less! I only did this on the short term basis of a couple of weeks and did receive a few of the same clients.. keeping in mind this was long before the internet form of advertising.. and I only did this because I was so scared of getting busted again.. but it was a fabulous learning experience. I eventually quit all together except for keeping a couple of long term regulars until my re-entering the scene here in Ottawa a few years later. Whatever you charge there are guys who will think you are either very reasonable or very expensive depending on their perspective. In other words you can't appeal to everyone. As an individual contractor you can decide how much you are willing to work for and stick with it as long as the market will bear. The economy is getting tough on all of us.. so like some of my colleagues, I have chosen to stick to my rates and simply lower my overhead so I can live comfortably rather than increase the volume and have to raise my overhead. I'm also planning on touring out west where I have a long list of prospective clients waiting to try me out. Many of my older regulars have had to stop hobbying because of their own job loss/reduction or other health problems/age/family issues.. so thank goodness I have done the MILF porn and appeal to the younger guys or I wouldn't be getting an influx of new hobbiests :) Edited April 26, 2010 by Carrie Moon typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ou**or**n Report post Posted April 26, 2010 I think its an important point to recognize that a great number of the factors that determine the rates a lady can charge are completely within her control. Youth, looks and overall market supply are indeed factors and are those that are out of the control of most ladies. However within these boundaries are countless ways for ladies to control their earnings. First - offer great service. Having an honest love for sex is probably the biggest advantage any lady in this business can have. Read up on sex. Learn new positions. Become highly proficient in your profession. Buy toys and lingerie. Be upscale and classy. There are countless threads here on providing an upscale incall or outcall service. Mind the basics - reply to emails, be on time. Be a good listener, many successful ladies have learned that many guys need someone to listen to them as much as they need sex. Two ladies in the same market of the same age and looks can make at least a 100% difference in their earnings based on how well they apply these basic things. CERB is a great resource of hundreds of tips and most of the ladies reading and posting here already know them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
etasman2000 15994 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 I believe, without furnishing proof, that rates are determine by Location. Cost of living determines an acceptable minimum compensation rate. Suppy&Demand. Supply is inversely proportional to compensation. Purpose. Main source of income ? Or can do without it but nice to have that extra pocket money ? Prequalification. Each compensation strata attracts a different type of clientele. Marketing. Higher compensation typically equated to higher quality. Guess what......the above are just basic business rules. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PAPERSILO 41 Report post Posted April 26, 2010 do you get many hobbyists that try to haggle different rates with you ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annessa 22743 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 Interesting thread, but I'll agree with Angela when I say its a bit of a pot-stir-er (shh! its a word now! lol) I had a conversation with a client when he phoned me for my rates, when he heard my difference in incall rates to outcall rates he kinda scoffed and said "hmm...isn't incall supposed to cost less??" (I charge more for incalls) however, some girls work out of their homes for incall and I work out of another SPs apartment when I need to do an incall and pay her a fee per call...therefore I charge a little extra to handle that fee. it did kinda bother me that someone was telling me which of my rates was *supposed* to cost x-amount. I have never given a special until this week...but thats because unlike other weeks where I dont need the volume, I have something extra special I'm trying to work towards this week that I need the funds for. Not desperation. every girl has her reasons, and like it was said before, if one person is comfortable charging x-amount over x-amount it shouldnt be up to anyone else to wonder why....and definitely not up to anyone else to tell them that their prices dont fit the "market" of their surroundings. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fortunateone 156618 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 Everyone has great points. There really are a lot of factors to rates, like location. Altho Vancouver has generally higher rates for sps who closely resemble the Montreal type non-asian sp with their youth, few restrictions, etc. Here, if the same sp was downtown, she would easily charge 300/hr, some would charge and get more. I am thinking of the sps who are 22-24, slim, extremely pretty, offer bbbjs (not all that common in non-asian encounters), GFE to PSE. There is an mp outside of downtown where that rate (cbj mostly) is 320/hr, msog not necessarily provided. There are also a lot of suburb areas within a half hour of dontwown where the rates adjust a bit lower for similar experiences. The # one impression in Vancouver is that because asian micros offer GFE full service at 120-140 for 45 minute sessions, then everyone should if they want to get business. But, primarily, the asian micros only compete with each other, and mostly non-asian sps do not have the same clientele at all. And this is such an individualized personal service, that simple pricing for anyone with interchangeable parts is cheaper (including the b&s, fake ages, and not keeping appts that are set up, shared space with multiple clients & other people in the apartment during your time, complete or nearly complete lack of communication with an sp who does not speak your language & did not agree to the services promised to you, and on and on). That is why non-micro sps do not actually have these as competition, even tho it would seem that their low low rates should drive all rates down to their level. But the reality is that the micros cannot possibly compete with the much more limited supply of non-asian sp who provides honest advertising, individualized and personal service (in your language), and is also someone that you can visit next week, next month, next year, and have a similar experience time after time. So even tho a 40+ sp outside of downtown who does not provide bbbjs and charges almost twice as much as these places still is as busy as she wants to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andee 220524 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 it did kinda bother me that someone was telling me which of my rates was *supposed* to cost x-amount. I agree!. And you shouldn't have to explain yourself to anyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royalfun 55448 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 For what I see in almost all the ads or websites of the SPs, rates are non-negociable and to discuss the matter is considered as a downer to the kind of relationship expected. In a way, I find that kind of policy quite clear and practical, and allows the "service" to go on without that plain fact, that nothing is free in life. When I see a SP, I want to have fun, to relax, to meet someone sexy and in a good mood, to prepare to pleasure, but not to begin a discussion on the cost and benefits of the service to be provided. I dont need this hobby to negociate, I do that for free in my job all day long. Given that, the "rates" are based on the free choice of the provider, who in that manner chooses the "clientele" she wants, and accordingly offers the services she wants to offer. YMMV, as we say.:???: When I prepare my encounters, I look a their pics, read a lot of recs, and sometimes ask advice on the SP, and I also consider their rates and services; after all, it's a business relationship, and as a hobbiest I know that I will spend money and I also know that I can choose where I will spend it. I just look forward to meet the magnificent ladies here, and unfortunatly, I know that I will not have enough time and money to see everyone I would like to see. But I am trying hard.:motion: 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrie Moon 68826 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 Outforfun. I like the way you explained your thoughts and I'd have to agree on most.. but I've even met gorgeous SP's over the years who literally hated sex and were still very busy.. funny eh? Thankfully I enjoy sex but not with everyone. I find it laughable that some girls seem to enjoy it with everyone. Really? I don't even enjoy every meal I have out at a restaurant.. but I do indeed love to eat!! I think it's even more important that you genuinely like people... which I often do. Certainly I can't like everyone... but I try to find something likeable about every client. sometimes indeed that's only how generous, hygenic or respectful they are... Anessa. I've seen that it's more common to charge more for incalls somewhere but I forget where. It may have been Florida? It was somewhere I hadn't ended up going on tour but wanted to some years ago. I was surprised but you point out the obvious. In Ottawa it may be cheaper to do outcall than cover the cost of a hotel room for instance... whereas in Toronto it always cost me more to do outcalls simply because of distance/parking costs. fortunateone.. you bring up so many great points and I can't wait to get out your way one of these days to visit your fine city and meet up with some of the gents out there. Girls over 40 don't compete with little bitty Asian girls..:butt: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest s******ecan**** Report post Posted April 27, 2010 I find it laughable that some girls seem to enjoy it with everyone. Really? I've always found this hard to believe as well. Still I think for most guys we want to believe the lady enjoys herself during our visit. Its a little like that line from a Dire Straits song..... "two men think they're Jesus one of them must be wrong" In regards to price I can honestly say its not really a big factor for me. If I see a lady I want to spend time with her rate is the last thing I'll consider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andee 220524 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 I've always found this hard to believe as well. Still I think for most guys we want to believe the lady enjoys herself during our visit. Its a little like that line from a Dire Straits song..... "two men think they're Jesus one of them must be wrong" In regards to price I can honestly say its not really a big factor for me. If I see a lady I want to spend time with her rate is the last thing I'll consider. A wise SP once told me that we are selling the whole package - a fantasy if you will. If you believe the lady is enjoying herself and you are happy, then everybody is happy, right? And you're right. I have had clients come and see me who see other girls who have lower rates and higher rates. So I don't believe rates are a determining factor as much as some would like to believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ou**or**n Report post Posted April 27, 2010 but I've even met gorgeous SP's over the years who literally hated sex and were still very busy.. funny eh? Thankfully I enjoy sex but not with everyone. I find it laughable that some girls seem to enjoy it with everyone. Really? I don't even enjoy every meal I have out at a restaurant.. but I do indeed love to eat!! I think it's even more important that you genuinely like people... which I often do. Certainly I can't like everyone... Great points. A gorgeous SP who hates sex can do well on individual encounters but after a couple of repeats a client feels it. They stop repeating. The girl then needs new clients which in general she will get. However the average looking SP that enjoys sex and people can do as well or better. The enjoyment comes through, her clients repeat more and for longer periods, she has less turnover. The gorgeous one may even make more per hour but the one that has the most love for the job (combination of sex and genuine like of people) will more likely make more over the long term. There really is two things here - an hourly rate and overall earnings. They are not necessarily related. I share the same feelings towards rates as a number of the other gents here in that a ladies rate (within a certain range) simply isn't something that ranks very high when I decide who to see. Mostly I only care about the exact rate to ensure I have the correct donation when I arrive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrie Moon 68826 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 I think it's interesting that a few have posted that rates are the last thing they consider. This is only true for people who can afford to think that way.. for instance. I love shoes.. but I'm dutch and shopping is a hobby for me. I can afford to pay 300 bucks for a pair of shoes.. but I don't. I love to get a bargain and I have way more shoes than I need and most I don't even wear. There are different categories of punters. Some can only afford to buy new shoes a few times a year and may decide to get high end shoes as a result. Some would rather get several pairs.. more 'bang' for the buck so to speak :p Others can afford and choose to get all ranges and types... so market dictates, style dictates and the consumer decides how, when, where and if to hobby at all. Speaking of shoe sales.. I liken my desire to go to a shoe sale (my addiction) to a new girl visiting from out of town. If she's in my price range.. hell ya I'm gonna try to see her. The shoe sale may never be on that pair of shoes again :) Anyone who's visited me knows how prized my shoes are.. same as the memories guys may have of our visits. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Annessa 22743 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 Speaking of shoe sales.. I liken my desire to go to a shoe sale (my addiction) to a new girl visiting from out of town. If she's in my price range.. hell ya I'm gonna try to see her. The shoe sale may never be on that pair of shoes again :) Anyone who's visited me knows how prized my shoes are.. same as the memories guys may have of our visits. I love your shoes babe! definitely you have good taste in them and know when a deal is presented!..or a one-time offer on them! its funny there was a really good paragraph that a client read to me from the book Frakonomics....(potential spelling of the best seller may be wrong and quotes folowing etc) but there waqs an entire chapter on "why an escort was like a secret santa" (again quote may be off...) the story followed a woman who decided to quit her blue collar job and become an escort....she charged at first a certain amount...around $250 or so...then after a year of doing so she decided to move to New York and tried to decide what her rate would be... she decided to go "out there" and charge $400...she realized then that men would see her for longer periods of time because they were the men who could afford her and wanted "the eperience"...she relocated again and started charging $500/hr and a minimum of 2-hour visits and still was just as busy with her low-volume quality clientele.... the end of the story was that no matter where she went and no matter what she charged, as long as she was a quality provider and kept up her reputation she would still be happy and making enough no matter how high she raised her bar. when you think to the girls charging $100 on CL to try and get more volume and probably seeing 1-time clients...no offence but I think I'll relocate a couple times or even stay in the city and raise my "bar" after each milestone where I feel i deserve a certain amount...not by what the bar around me is. That being said once my website is up in a couple months rates will be higher, lol....banners and websites cost money after all *wink* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ariane Valmont 332 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 Certainly I can't like everyone... but I try to find something likeable about every client. sometimes indeed that's only how generous, hygenic or respectful they are... The exact same rule can be applied to sex. What I mean is that despite the fact not everyone is a skillful lover, if you can find at least one thing you appreciate about them sexually and focus on that, it will make it a lot easier to enjoy yourself. I think that's how you can achieve having pleasure with most (not ALL of course) of your partners. It's not so laughable when you think about it this way. :) (Did that make sense? Sorry, my English is deficient at times!) Oh and about the rate question : Angela, mod and Carrie already provided excellent answers! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boomer01 5542 Report post Posted April 27, 2010 I think for me all I ask from an Sp is to be honest about the services she is willing to provide...the rate she expects for said services and if she is not willing to post pictures at least be honest with her description.I find most Sp's on Cerb to have the utmost of integrity and thats where I look for my fun.I feel Sp's can charge what they feel they are worth and market and how she treats her "hobbiests" will ultimately decide. My two cents Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
