Loralee Reach 245 Report post Posted November 23, 2010 here http://www.visioncritical.com/wp-con...ostitution.pdf Very very very interesting for those who like to read.... LoraL 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capital Hunter 18263 Report post Posted November 24, 2010 Thanks for attaching the link Loralee: The part that I enjoyed to read most was the part that only 8 percent of Canadians embrace the backward Swedish model which prostitution is illegal even between consenting adults and clients are being punished and a handful said that prostitutes have to be punished while almost half (48%) of Canadians said that consensual prostitution should be legal all across the country. The part that I didn't like was the part that one-third of our population believe both clients and prostitutes should be punished. Too high for my comfort lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JuliasUndies 7288 Report post Posted November 24, 2010 I hope that Prostitutes will be brought inside and hopefully help protect them from the dark side of the trade and sub-humans like Robert Pickton. Decriminalization could help prostitutes from being targeted and vulnerable with no where to turn.It will help them from being alienated, isolated and stop them from being persecuted because of their trade. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mod 135639 Report post Posted November 24, 2010 streetwalkers who are working as prostitutes to support a chemichal addiction (crack, meth, heroin, etc) would not be all that welcome in a brothel and I am sure if the legalize or decriminalize it we will see brothel licenses, inspections, mandatory drug testing all enforced by the city bylaws. at least in the major cities. either way will not bring a large portion of the street prostitution inside. only the ladies who are working on the streets that are not supporting a drug addiction but I agree.... any choice is better then no choice and if it saves even one life it's worth he effort. some politians and public think this will somehow end street prostitution and pimps. those people live off some far off fantasy world!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JuliasUndies 7288 Report post Posted November 24, 2010 some politians and public think this will somehow end street prostitution and pimps. those people live off some far off fantasy world!! Yes, this is absurd to think that it would end this sector, which propably does not constitute as prostitution at all but something way off, for those that don t have a choice because of the surrounding factors and circumstances (crack, pimps ..) However, if saving one life is worth it, then it s worth it, perhaps it could prevent a street "hooker" that most likely wasn t into a permanent profession, but once on the streets, it can become a lifestyle, a trap. I have personally interviewed street prostitutes, and more so than not they started to earn some much needed quick money, then was introduced to the wrong people....and still there years later. What these girls are doing is not prostitution, but desperation and are just as likely to offer sexual relations and to steal, rob..but street prostitution has more opportunity to turn a quick buck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mod 135639 Report post Posted November 24, 2010 That is a little harsh. It is very much prostitution but it no longer becomes free will. Prostitution is the ONLY high paying job that you do not need to go work for someone else. Massage spa's, strip clubs, agencies even all have set hours and they don't want anyone with a drug addiction in the facilities.... especially if they are leaving all the time to get high. With street prostitution you set your own hours and it's cash. Basically if you are in a bad place it's quick money and your not robbing or stealing from anyone. Really when you think of the alternatives... streetwalking is really not the worst choice by any stretch of the imagination! Who's going to hire you for a 9 to 5 job? Especially one that will pay for the addiction?! The problem is when you have a drug addiction it's really the only choice. You could rob and steal or you could turn to prostitution (Really nothing else exists to choose from other then quitting the drugs and once your addicted that is almost impossible to stop on your own - you really become trapped). It is "Sex Work" but not "escorting" and not the same as massage spa attendants or exotic dancers either. 99% of the ladies online are not drug addicts (Many drink and smoke pot but do not work as an escort to pay for any drug addiction)... What I always say is when do you ever see a crack addict using a computer. They would not own a computer or really have any interest in it... most do not own a cell phone and who would use a internet cafe?? We owned a internet cafe for YEARS with streetwalkers working right in front of it in a downtown location... not ONE streetwalker ever came in to use a computer... but the local escorts sure did!! If you have a chemical addiction your not going to spend 10.00 at a internet cafe... your going to spend it on your addiction. A pimp may place ads on CL and bait and switch guys to come see you in some shady part of town... but thankfully few of the pimps really have much interest in that either. The general public puts all SEX WORKERS and especially all PROSTITUTES into one big group! The public needs to know that streetwalkers (The ones who have addictions and are doing that because they have no choice) are NOT the same as "escorts".. a smaller number of streetwalkers do not deal with pimps, do not do drugs and do not fit the stereotype and I am not sure why they work on the streets as opposed to inside as all of the escorts do here. I see why in a way as it's easy (no phone to answer, no bookings, instant work, instant cash, etc... etc..) but the danger level is way to high and comfort levels are way too low for most people who don't NEED to do that. Maybe some people just don't know how to be an escort and work inside (off the streets) so the laws changing may help those people and for that I would be happy. I think the public things that streetwalkers start off innocent and turn to drugs... personally I think it's the other way around! I think a lot of people turn to street walking AFTER they become addicted (as the addiction grows). At first the addiction can be hidden... you can hold a job and your only spending 20-30 a day on the drug but the addiction grows bigger to the point that you loose your job (or your parents kick you out) or whatever happens happens... and you have NO WHERE to turn to. I know some people are drawn to be a streetwalker (especially at a young age) as they see EASY MONEY and then get trapped in a world of drugs and pimps but I still beleive a MUCH LARGER number of ladies end up addicted to drugs then turn to prostitution AFTER the fact. Am I wrong about this? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest s******ecan**** Report post Posted November 24, 2010 The problem is when you have a drug addiction it's really the only choice. You could rob and steal or you could turn to prostitution (Really nothing else exists to choose from other then quitting the drugs and once your addicted that is almost impossible to stop on your own - you really become trapped). Well said Mod. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest W***ledi*Time Report post Posted November 24, 2010 Previous discussion of this 2009 poll: http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19551 And of the follow-up poll in 2010: http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37034 It is interesting to note that there was virtually zero change in public opinion in the year between the polls, despite the publicized developments in the constitutional appeal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JuliasUndies 7288 Report post Posted November 24, 2010 This is Most True. You know what troubles me, is that having all sex workers grouped into one category. Like you have mentioned Mod, there is no stereotype here :) to say that street walking prostitutes are most likely highly addicted to drugs and are trapped, while it is safer to say that other sex workers (the ones that use the computers) are more competent and functional and less likely have a substances control them. Everywhere, regardless of employment or field of work people abuse substances. We've all you seen the line ups for the LCBO or Beer stores. Normal functioning society tend to "relax" once in a while and this is also true for the functioning sex workers. Now, if the government steps in and starts doing mandatory drug tests for these workers what exactly is going to happen? What if I like to smoke a dube in the evenings and once a month paint the town white and have a blast? Will I be exiled, cast out and refused safe haven to do the work I love because I am just like the rest of the population and like my "relax" time? Will the Government "regulate" me and my THC and traces of my monthly bender and help me by having some sort of support group or health monitoring system or will I be considered tainted, thus painting a bad picture on the government and riding me altogether? If this is the case the prostitution laws wouldn't help a thing and the government would be getting good funds from all the fines they will be handing out for exactly what goes on now, make some arrests, embarrass some people and for what? what? look like some sort of cleaner -Superhero- Government for doing something about it, legally? And the street prostitutes, the workers that are renowned for higher and more dangerous substance abuse, will they be helped? Reformed? Or discarded and the streets they will remain... I can understand why they would want to do mandatory tests considering that all workers are grouped together, but what exactly is the plan then and what sort of actions will or won't be taken? And by day, when I am working for the government, shouldn t they drug test me there too? :!: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest W***ledi*Time Report post Posted November 24, 2010 ... Now, if the government steps in and starts doing mandatory drug tests for these workers what exactly is going to happen? ... There is no chance of this happening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mod 135639 Report post Posted November 24, 2010 Yes, the government would not do this.... but individual municipalities anything is possible. For instance in Hamilton Ontario the Exotic dancers require police clearance checks and need to pay a License fee each year of 400.00 (The managers and owners also need licenses and police checks). In Barrie you can not have a "Escort" license unless you work for a agency with a license and a commercial building to receive the calls from (1000.00+ for agency license and I think it's 300.00 for each lady per year). Calgary, Windsor and Edmonton have the most enforced laws that target anyone without a license (The laws enforce how you can advertise your business, require you to keepp logs of all appointments, and much more!). Some municipalities limit stripclubs so much that it is impossible to open one (Zoning). Some limit your hours of operation... tell you that you can not operate on Sundays, can not stay open after 11pm or before 3pm (or both) etc... etc... What I am saying is that the municipalities will enforce these ANY WAY they see fit and the only way to stop them is to take the municipality to court where the judge would obviously deem the bylaw unconstitutional. They use the bylaws to keep these "unwanted" business's out of the cities! The municipalities focus on the fact that not many people would ever go to the effort of taking something like this to court. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest W***ledi*Time Report post Posted November 24, 2010 The Canadian Human Rights Commission's Policy on Alcohol and Drug Testing states: Drug and alcohol testing is prima facie discriminatory under Canadian human rights law. Nevertheless, employers can justify discriminatory practices and rules if they are a bona fide occupational requirement (BFOR). [....] drug tests such as urinalysis cannot measure whether a person is under the effect of a drug at the time the test is administered. A drug test can only detect past drug use. An employer who administers a drug test cannot tell whether that person is impaired at that moment, or is likely to be impaired while on the job [...] If testing is part of a broader program of medical assessment, monitoring and support, employers can test for drugs in any of the following situations: -- for "reasonable cause," where an employee reports for work in an unfit state and there is evidence of substance abuse; -- after a significant incident or accident has occurred and there is evidence that an employee?s act or omission may have contributed to the incident or accident; or -- following treatment for drug abuse, or disclosure of a current drug dependency or abuse. (Usually, a physician or substance abuse professional will determine whether follow-up testing is necessary for a particular individual.) [...]Pre-employment drug or alcohol testing is permitted only in limited circumstances, such as when the individual has disclosed an existing or recent history of drug or alcohol abuse, or where a pre-employment medical exam provides the physician with reasonable cause to believe that an individual may be abusing drugs or alcohol and therefore may become impaired on the job. [...] random drug tests cannot be shown to be reasonably necessary to accomplish the goal of ensuring that workers are not impaired by drugs while on the job ... [...] Reasonable cause or post-incident/accident testing for alcohol or drugs may be acceptable in specific circumstances in a safety-sensitive work environment. For example, following a significant accident, near miss or report of dangerous behaviour, an employer will have a legitimate interest in assessing whether an employee has used substances that may have contributed to the accident or incident [....] Testing should be considered only where an employee?s on-the-job behaviour provides reasonable grounds to believe the employee is impaired by drugs or alcohol. [...] As part of screening for fitness to perform work of a safety sensitive nature, an employer may ask employees to provide personal medical information through a pre-employment questionnaire or application form, or as part of a medical examination. Questions concerning use of alcohol or drugs may also be included. [...] Automatic dismissal or refusal to employ someone based on a disclosure of past or present dependency on drugs or alcohol is contrary to the Canadian Human Rights Act. In most cases, failure to disclose alcohol or drug use or dependency is not grounds for dismissal, since denial can be a symptom of addiction. An employee who requests assistance because of alcohol or drug use should not be disciplined for seeking help. http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/legislation_policies/padt_pdda/toc_tdm-eng.aspx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andee 220524 Report post Posted November 24, 2010 I think the public things that streetwalkers start off innocent and turn to drugs... personally I think it's the other way around! I think a lot of people turn to street walking AFTER they become addicted (as the addiction grows). At first the addiction can be hidden... you can hold a job and your only spending 20-30 a day on the drug but the addiction grows bigger to the point that you loose your job (or your parents kick you out) or whatever happens happens... and you have NO WHERE to turn to. I know some people are drawn to be a streetwalker (especially at a young age) as they see EASY MONEY and then get trapped in a world of drugs and pimps but I still beleive a MUCH LARGER number of ladies end up addicted to drugs then turn to prostitution AFTER the fact. Am I wrong about this? You're absolutely right, MOD. And it just doesn't happen to young people. I have known women who became addicted in their 30s and 40s and turned to prostitution to support their habit after their lost their savings, jobs, etc. Addiction does not discriminate on how nice a person you are, how intelligent or educated you are or how old you are. A few years back, I met this 65 year old "crack granny" working down in Hintonberg. I believe she would be probably be around 70 years old and is probably still out there, if she isn't dead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
